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General 5:2 and Fasting Chat

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[quote="carorees"]I started to have a look at Amanda Salis' research and found this very useful summary written for lay people of her work:
http://www.garvan.org.au/pdfs/miscellan ... ebPage.pdf



Hi Caro thks for that..interesting stuff and how nice to eat our way out of famine reaction :razz:
I wonder if you know the answer to this (or anyone) ..how is it that anorexics continue to lose,to the point they become skeletal or even die? Why doesnt the famine reaction kick in for them? I know their bodies try to cope by periods stopping/ body hair growing to try to keep body heat etc..but why doesnt the famine reaction happen to them..always puzzles me!
I think it's probable that it does indeed kick in but because of the psychological dysfunction that anorexia sufferers have, they are sufficiently motivated to simply fight off the urge to eat or if they have the bulimia form of the disorder they may succumb to the pressure to eat but then purge.

I don't know though...that's just my guess...perhaps someone who has studied EDs might know.
carorees wrote: I think it's probable that it does indeed kick in but because of the psychological dysfunction that anorexia sufferers have, they are sufficiently motivated to simply fight off the urge to eat or if they have the bulimia form of the disorder they may succumb to the pressure to eat but then purge.

I don't know though...that's just my guess...perhaps someone who has studied EDs might know.


I think that's true Caroline. Most people would have to listen to that urge to eat but they are driven by something totally different aren't they? Something far more destructive.

I think theres truth in what Amanda Salis says. I've noticed myself that giving in to a binge can often kick start a stall. Its about not binging too regularly! :lol:

I downloaded a sample of the book and it was interesting but it will have to wait until the budget improves for me to read the rest!
The famine effect and binges
19 Oct 2013, 23:15
I've not read Salis's book, so I'm not totally clear on her eating plan (though I'm always well leery of folk flogging supplements attached to their diet) but the odd binge makes a nice sort of sense.

Tim Ferriss, he of the 4-hour body and mad as a ferret, suggests that 'scheduling in' a binge once a week circumvents unscheduled / uncontrollable binges that would otherwise inevitably happen.

So I'm intrigued.

I'm sore tempted by the regulated, or even spontaneous, binge plan (because I'm a FatDog, and the idea of being 'allowed' to eat croissants and pizza once a week is nearly irresistible *) but, some how, binging vitiates the whole learning to eat sensibly / properly ethos of 5:2! Slippery slope comes to mind.

Perplexed FatDog.

* I think allowing these 'forbidden foods' occasionally will also help them lose any remaining allure. The last pizza I had wasn't a complete disappointment just because it was sub-standard, I think even a 'good pizza' would have been a let-down as I've now plenty of experience of much yummier low-carb things to eat, and they don't give me bloat / tummy-ache later either.
I like your thinking FatDog, btw people are mad as a cut snake in these parts!!
I think that allowing a bit of slack once week, say, does help to manage those cravings and lead to better eating the rest of the week. It does for me.
Normally I would make more bad choices than I am now because I am definitely more aware of what I am putting in my mouth, and the consequences. Having done two restricted 12 week programs I know that I obsess about food and it all falls in a carb, fat and sugar loaded heap afterwards. At least this way I can have my cake, and eat it, just not very often!!
I've been saying for a while now, that we should build a feast day into a routine of FDs and NFDs.

After all, our ancestors would have eaten their fill, and more, whenever someone made a kill - never knowing where their next meal was coming from.

So, Monday and Wednesday, fast; Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, eat; Sunday, feast. If you're trying to lose weight, just eat a little less on the NFDs to allow for a weekly feast.
Gee thanks breadandwine for resurrecting this thread. It spurred me onto a rejig of my 5:2 routine with effect. Very helpful for those peeps who are having a protracted plateau.

Thanks too Debs for original post has got me back on track
carorees wrote: I started to have a look at Amanda Salis' research and found this very useful summary written for lay people of her work:
http://www.garvan.org.au/pdfs/miscellan ... ebPage.pdf

Very interesting stuff. I think I'll add it to my thread about reasons we put on weight after dieting!



@Carorees
This article makes sense of everything that has happened since christmas.
Was fine at xmas,didnt overeat,didnt want to,felt full,had small amounts of celebration goodies but actually lost two pounds.first time in years i hadnt gained weight over xmas.
But since about 29 Dec,have been struggling to fast, ( failed last thursday)..hungry all the time,craving carbs, miserable coz all seemed to be going wrong
Havent been on scales,Tum feels bloated,couldnt work out why everything had changed ..the things i didnt crave at christmas i am craving now! Was depressed feeling,i dont know if i can continue fasting,far too difficult
Thank you,you have saved my bacon tonight and i have some insight into what is going on x
I guess having lost just under two stone,its likely i'm niw having the famine reaction
thanks thanks thanks for showing me the way to deal with it x
So beat that hypothalamus into submission @CandiceMarie by getting some chocolate down your neck! :razz:
Must admit I too have felt ravenously hungry for some reason the last few days. Tonight what has really satisfied is two slices of Karen's pumpkin bread with some blueberries and my old standby greek yogurt dolloped on top! Yummy! :grin:
Well maybe just a square Cally! But actually i feel the need to calm the nagging hunger she describes with more filling nourishing foods.."nagging" is exactly the right word, i just cant beat this hunger,it doesnt pass like the fast hunger pangs do
@Carorees what does it mean in terms of fasting..should the 2 fast days be put on hold and if so for how long? Any advice?

Ps @callyanna that sounds divine xx!
I think you might be best increasing the calorie intake on some/all feast days as B&W suggests above. I think the contrast between feast and famine is good. If fast days are really hard you could increase the calorie allowance. I think, though that a few good feast days might make fast days easier. Further, maybe the ease of your fast days would give a good indication of how well you're combating the famine effect.

I know Dr Salis says you may need to put the diet on hold for a month or more, so another option might be to have a practice maintenance period so try 6:1 or 16:8 or whatever you think you might do maintain.
Thanks for that good advice Caro! Whew,relief! I read about the famine thing a while ago and promptly forgot ( goldfish brain) :confused:
I was actually thinking of doing a blog earlier on giving up 5:2 as it was just becoming too difficult
But i didnt want to discourage any newbies by being so negative :0(
Plus i didnt want to get drummed out of the Club and banned from all the Tents :grin: :lol:
I'm not sure if it's diet related at all (because it's something that just happens to me occasionally), but I had a couple of days of wanting to eat everything in sight. I wasn't even particularly hungry. I was constantly thinking of food, and as it wasn't a fast day, I was allowing myself far more than necessary. Nothing I was eating satisfied me, though, including some really nice chocolate, some Walkers chocolate chip cookies (yummy buttery shortbread), or healthier things like falafel. My cure finally was to go for a run. A 15.9k run. I was due for a long run as part of my half-marathon training, and it turned my appetite right around. I had the easiest fast since the first post-Xmas one yesterday, even though I did some strength training at midday.
Candicemarie, you are not alone, I am occasionally nervous before my first meal as I know it will wake the sleeping monster muncher within and I just want to eat for the sake of it. I'm sure it will pass, so I am just going with it. I haven't eaten much today and I seem to be fine, so I shall make this a semi fast day and be comfortable with that. Tomorrow I will probably want to eat the wotsits off a low flying duck!!!
Thank you for this thread and the article @Carorees. I was not conscious of a plateau because I had reached my initial goal but the lethargy and cold were so bad I had to take a day of work, see a GP, had all my bloods done, etc.

My white blood cell count was down so they want to check that again next week but all other indicators were great, cholesterol, iron, B12, etc. My 'binge' has been copious amounts of rare beef noodle soups (Vietnamese Pho); relatively low for take-away or restaurant meals but comforting and nourishing. And chocolates. I am feeling fine lately, still cold, but back exercising and feeling in control.
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