The FastDay Forum

This is in todays Daily Mail. Cant say that I'm impressed but but it is interesting. Programme airs tomorrow.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... -life.html

Ballerina x

A bit all or nothing isn't? Not very helpful at all really to give up ALL carbs. I certainly agree that the combination of fat and sugar is a winning, sorry, I meant, wicked combination.

I'll need to see the programme of course but my guess is that the low carb guy was eating too much protein. This means he was converting protein to glucose so never entered ketosis. This would explain the brain fog and lethargy.

let's see if my prediction is correct!

The analysis seems to agree with what Anthony Colpo has been saying for years...

Interesting that the low-carb guy lost more weight in a month than the low-fat one tho....

carorees wrote: I'll need to see the programme of course but my guess is that the low carb guy was eating too much protein. This means he was converting protein to glucose so never entered ketosis. This would explain the brain fog and lethargy.

let's see if my prediction is correct!

Agreed! Additionally, I also wonder whether there's a bias or skew introduced in not allowing the twin on the "Fat" diet to fully adapt and adjust to the new way of eating, before making the tests (assuming both are primarily Carb centric at the start)...

So I wondering whether they are going to demonstrate that High-fat brother in fully in Ketosis and has adapted for several weeks at least?

Still very keen to see the outcomes from a weight gain/weight loss perspective.

I agree with Debs - it is a bit 'all or nothing' - it is perfectly possible to eat low carb and have a varied diet where it doesn't mainly consist of meat/cheese/eggs, but you'd never guess that from reading the article. But then that's the Daily Mail.............

"Still very keen to see the outcomes from a weight gain/weight loss perspective."

Read the text and LowCarb 'won': "But, as our results show, it's a bit more complicated than this. Chris and I each lost weight on our diets - I lost the most, a remarkable 9lb in one month - but the other results were not at all what we had expected."

The conclusion in the article makes sense to me, it speaks to having a balanced diet and moderation though its not spelled out quite like that.

"any diet that eliminates fat or sugar will be unpalatable, hard to sustain and probably be bad for your health, too"

When you consider the confusion out there about what to eat and the diet industry pushing one fad aft another, I think this could be a simple message that people will be able to grasp.

Back to "everything in moderation, including moderation."

I do love the fact that full-fat cheese is no longer off the menu.

carorees wrote: I'll need to see the programme of course but my guess is that the low carb guy was eating too much protein. This means he was converting protein to glucose so never entered ketosis. This would explain the brain fog and lethargy.

let's see if my prediction is correct!

So what would you set the protein percentage at (or gram weight) to obtain ketosis, please?

I'm interested to know whether I have set up my MFP macros correctly

Too extreme with the comparisons. I would think a better indicator of which diet works best would be to change the balance. Compare the government food plates and their recommendations of protein/fat/carb percentages with a more moderate plate of protein %/kg weight with some higher fat and lower carb. We all need some protein/fat/carb but at what percentage is the question and how much does this vary from person to person for optimal health and brain function.

Hi, this could be interesting viewing. I guess in a way they had to be extreme, so as to be able to test the effects of each substance (fat or sugar) - unless they entirely eliminated one from each diet it couldn't really be seen to be a fair test. I guess the next step would be to see how what they learned can be modified into something which most people would find sustainable.

I know carbs have a very bad rap at the moment, and the 'low-carb' movement has a lot of supporters on this forum - and if it is working for you, great - but I have to stand up as a carb eater and proud of it! I do try to eat whole grain carbs like oats, brown rice, quinoa etc in the main but I also enjoy white pasta, homemade bread and cakes/baked goods (all in moderation of course). I have had days where I have tried to not have carb-rich foods (I know most veg have some amounts of carbs, I just mean not having bread, pasta, potatoes, rice etc) and to be honest it does not agree with me - I end up feeling a bit queasy, gassy and it is not good at the end of the digestive process! I have always felt that some carbs as part of a meal, especially of the whole grain variety, have done me good, they seem to 'anchor' a meal for me, meaning they help me feel fuller for longer. And dammit it tastes good - scrambled eggs without toast? Madness! I get hungry again very quickly. Scrambled eggs with homemade wholegrain toast - yummy and keeps me going for hours.

Sorry this is turning a bit rambling. Mainly I am trying to say that I agree with the 'everything in moderation' camp, and am afraid I am staying with the, probably very unfashionable, 'complex carbs' idea - I just get on better with a wide variety of foods, mainly fresh, unprocessed and made from scratch, and I'm not too fussed about the ideal combination of said foods - you know when you've overdone one or the other and if you're eating mindfully you can readjust next day.

And I don't do low fat either! I used to buy low fat greek yogurt for a fast day but don't have this any more. Full fat gives me the satisfaction factor, complex carbs give me the energy boost. If this is the wrong way to eat then I don't really want to be 'right'!

Domane wrote:

carorees wrote: I'll need to see the programme of course but my guess is that the low carb guy was eating too much protein. This means he was converting protein to glucose so never entered ketosis. This would explain the brain fog and lethargy.

let's see if my prediction is correct!

So what would you set the protein percentage at (or gram weight) to obtain ketosis, please?

I'm interested to know whether I have set up my MFP macros correctly

I can't find that there has been much research on this, however, I found a study in rats (not ideal as they have not evolved to eat a high fat diet) which did confirm that high protein interferes with developing ketosis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20943751
Currently, I am recommending that people stick to the 0.8g of protein/kg body weight per day as a suitable amount unless you are an elite athlete. This is felt by the researchers into IGF-1 to be appropriate as a means of reducing cancer risk.

I also agree with Tracie and others that moderation in all things is important.

I think that cutting carbs down to under, say, 50g per day is not necessary for most people (the exceptions being those with diabetes, pre-diabetes or very high circulating insulin). It seems that the effect of carbohydrate is not based on the percentage of carbs in your diet but rather the absolute amount. I think that the total amount of carbs being eaten in the countries where there is an obesity problem has probably gone up in response to governments' exhortations to eat more often and to include lots of carbs. If you look at the total amount of carbs eaten in countries where obesity is not a problem, even if carbs are a major element of their diet, the total amount eaten each day is considerably lower than in the UK, USA etc. Everyone needs to find their own balance and for me, if I keep carbs under 150g per day I feel much better, less bloated and also lose weight better than if I go over this amount. FatDog has experimented and found that anything over 70g per day for her stalls weight loss. So self-experimentation is the only way to find out the best balance for you!

It will be interesting to see whether the low carb twin ate high protein or high fat. Also, I wonder what the total carb intake of the low fat twin turns out to be? As the article says, carbs and fat tend to come together so cutting out fat can often result in cutting down on carbs too, so these kinds of studies are very hard to do in a way that produces meaningful results.

I am torn now between watching this programme and watching the new series of 'Outnumbered'. Do I want interesting or a laugh!